Beyond Logic: Why Relationships are the Real Procurement Engine

In this week’s episode of Proc & Roll, hosts Conrad Smith, Natasha Gurevich, and Zachary Bachir strip away the spreadsheets to focus on the soft skills that actually drive hard results: Stakeholder Management.

Zach candidly admits that he wasn't always good at this—in fact, he used to be a major "P-I-T-A" who had to learn the hard way how important people's feelings really are. His secret to turning it around? "I faked it until I wasn't faking it anymore".

Here are five critical lessons from the episode to help you master the "fluff" of procurement leadership.

1. The Frontal Lobe Framework

If you are trying to win over a difficult stakeholder with logic and numbers, you are already losing.

• The Brain Science: Zach explains that the emotional part of the brain (responsible for fight or flight) processes information much faster than the logical part of the brain.

• The Lesson: You cannot think your way to a relationship. Before you can apply any pressure or push an agenda, you must first establish a baseline of emotional safety and connection.

2. The Ego Audit

When Natasha meets with stakeholders, she asks a simple, diagnostic question: "What is your experience with procurement?". The answers aren't always pretty.

• Drop the Defensiveness: It is critical not to instantly get defensive when receiving this feedback.

• Calm the Ego: You have to calm down your ego and honestly accept that you and your team do not show up "perfectly, brilliantly, shiny at every step of our way".

• The Pivot: Instead of arguing, ask the stakeholder to coach you on how to solve the problem next time.

3. The "Fluff" Is the Job

It's easy to dismiss relationship building as non-essential. Natasha shared a story about a brilliant Gen AI architect who was laid off after two years with a company. The reason? He refused to go to lunches or get coffee, stating, "I don't do this fluff. I'm a tech guy".

• The Reality: We do not have the luxury of calling human connection "fluff". Building relationships is a mindful practice that requires dedicated time and effort.

4. Visualizing Strategy: The Stakeholder Map

To make relationship management practical, Natasha utilizes a color-coded "Stakeholder Map".

• Green (Rosy): Relationships that work well and hit goals together.

• Gray (Build Connection): Neutral relationships where you simply haven't had enough lunches and coffees yet.

• Orange (Let's Work on It): Relationships with "thorns" that may require an intermediary to broker peace.

• The Action: Use these colors to establish a regular communication cadence and build your engagement roadmap.

5. The "Love Fest" Paradox

While building trust is crucial, Conrad notes that if your relationships are a total "love fest," you probably aren't pushing hard enough.

• Embrace the Friction: CPOs inevitably have to push unpopular agendas that create commercial and operational constraints for the business. Resistance isn't going to go away, and you must be willing to bring hard conversations to the table.

• Pick Your Battles: You can't fight on every front, so focus your energy on what is most relevant to the business.

Are you ready to drop the gatekeeper mentality and start building true partnerships?

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Transcript: Proc-N-Roll | Beyond Logic: Why Relationships are the Real Procurement Engine

Conrad: Hey everybody, welcome to Proc and Rule, your guide to practical procurement. Super excited to be back with my best friends here. Natasha is in California, Zach is in London, and today you guys find me back in Hawaii again. Came over here to visit my sweetheart for Valentine's Day. What is top of mind for you guys today?

Natasha: So much work. Zach is not the only person who is super occupied with AI.

Conrad: We've got to get back into an AI episode soon. Zach, I visited Natasha, she had a hurricane come through her backyard, and she introduced me to her ginger shot recipe. I went home and started popping ginger shots. It ended up being a quart of this stuff that burns like cayenne pepper, it's amazing. Well, we've got a lot to talk about today. Our last episode on supplier management leads perfectly into stakeholder management. If you're new to leadership or a company, what is step one in getting started with stakeholder management?

Zachary: I'll be candid: I wasn't always okay at stakeholder management. I had to learn the hard way what emotional intelligence was and how important people's feelings are. Ever since I read about the frontal lobe and the fast brain—the emotional part that deals with fight and flight—I realized that building a relationship never comes back to logic and numbers. It comes down to emotional safety and emotional connection. EQ is a real discipline you need to work on. I used to have clients break down in tears or try to avoid me in pressurized situations. I realized I had to break the hurdle of putting a relationship in place first before applying pressure. You can't think your way to it.

Natasha: It's interesting. I would never say that about you, Zach, because you come across with a very measured temperament. So either you fake it very well, or you really have done the work.

Zachary: I faked it until one day I wasn't faking it anymore.

Conrad: "I had to learn that people's feelings really matter." That's got to go on the quote wall.

Natasha: When we talk about stakeholders, we often position it as "us versus them," but it's always "us" because we are part of the same company. Stakeholders have fiduciary duties to deliver goods or services. If procurement can offer help to get to their goals faster, cheaper, or more efficiently, no stakeholder would say no to that. The problem is stakeholders often associate procurement with bureaucracy and a lack of subject matter expertise, yet we barge in as gatekeepers. We have to add value.

Zachary: I have a CPO client who recently took on a new role at a large bank. She said the first thing she needs to do to build stakeholder relationships is make sure she's delivering on all the basics and not creating problems. Once things are running smoothly without noise, then she can approach stakeholders for more strategic conversations.

Natasha: Stakeholders very often identify procurement with a process. If the process is very difficult to follow and they spend more energy trying to bypass it, it's very difficult to win their attention. Forget about hearts and minds if the core function of making their life easier isn't fulfilled. I once asked a CMO and a Chief Real Estate Officer to participate in their negotiations. They told me, "Don't thank me, I thank you," because they had always hoped for deep partnership, but the previous procurement team never provided incremental expertise.

Conrad: Zach, I want to add some caution to your CPO friend's perspective. In my early days as a CPO, I had imposter syndrome around the C-suite and made excuses not to have those conversations. If you're holding yourself back waiting to fix the basics first, I encourage you to think differently. If you engage them early, ask what they need fixed, and then come back and show it's fixed, you've actually built the relationship at a better level. On day one, do you spend your first 90 days on a listening tour, or do you go out hunting for value?

Zachary: I try to do two things. One is create a safe environment so people know I'm here to help, not challenge them. At the same time, I try to establish credibility that I can actually deliver on their problems.

Natasha: On a listening tour, I meet with stakeholders and ask: "What is your experience with procurement?" It's very important not to get instantly defensive. This conversation is good to have even three years in. Ask them what they like and what they'd like to change. I usually meet with C-level peers and then go one level down, because that's where the magic happens.

Conrad: It's easy to get defensive, especially if the hard feedback is actually about you and your team. What is your advice to leaders feeling defensive?

Natasha: We are all too attached to our positions and titles. If we calm down our ego and are honest, we know we're not showing up perfectly shiny at every step. Most likely, the feedback is fair. Master taking this feedback as an opportunity to improve. I often ask people to coach me on how they suggest I approach it next time.

Conrad: Set aside the ego, listen to the feedback, and focus on them. They are testing you to see how you react.

Natasha: Let's be real, there are some very difficult stakeholders who haven't managed their own ego and see no need to engage with procurement. But relationships need to be built. I recently spoke with a brilliant Gen AI architect who got laid off after two years. I asked how many people he had lunches or coffee with. He said, "I don't do this fluff. I'm a tech guy". We do not have the luxury to say that; relationships are a mindful practice we must invest in.

Zachary: It's not your job to make every stakeholder like you. If you aren't running into people who disagree with you, maybe you aren't doing enough to actually transform things.

Conrad: It depends on how strategically important that stakeholder is. It's easy to spend 80% of your time fighting battles and only 20% adding value to stakeholders ready to partner. Natasha, give us a speed run through the stakeholder map you introduced back in episode nine.

Natasha: We created four gradations of relationship health. Green is "Rosy," meaning we work well together and deliver results. Gray is "Build Connection," which isn't bad, it just means we haven't had enough lunches yet. Orange is "Let's Work on It," meaning there are some thorns and we may need an intermediary to broker peace. You map your stakeholders, color assess the partnership strength, and establish a regular meeting cadence based on their level.

Zachary: I consult and do stakeholder mapping all the time, and this is the best visual representation. I would print it out so all of procurement can see it throughout the year.

Natasha: I have a question. Every procurement person will soon face the necessity of talking to stakeholders about how AI and automation will augment support. How do you approach stakeholders who may not be mentally or organizationally ready for that change?

Zachary: Even in a fully agentic world, the thread of speaking to a real human being will still be super important. If you aren't used to dealing with stakeholders daily, it will feel uncomfortable, but you need to put yourself out there. Don't be afraid that an agent might automate your work; it frees you up to build more relationships.

Conrad: If there's a total love fest, you're probably not pushing hard enough. You need to be able to bring hard conversations to the table. Build the relationship, have trust, and then be willing to bring up the hard things like AI.

Natasha: Love fest does not mean everyone likes you. CPOs often push an unpopular agenda that creates commercial or operational constraints for the organization. "Love fest" means there is a common understanding of company priorities.

Conrad: What's your big walk away today, Zach?

Zachary: Natasha's points around managing your ego and taking feedback properly. Stakeholder management is all about EQ, emotional intelligence, and awareness. Lean into that.

Natasha: I would add that we are all in it together. It's not "us versus them". If perspectives are difficult to merge, pick your battles. Put your energy where it's most business-relevant.

Conrad: It's about people. If you're struggling with EQ skills, fake it until you make it. Practice those skills every day when someone tries to piss you off. Keep it inside and respond with kindness. Stakeholder management is a foundation for doing your job well at any level.

This transcript has been edited for clarity while maintaining all substantive content